YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20071203

Statistics Report: statistics @ 30/11/2007 net gain of 24 pages, 11 users, 10,086 page hits and 381 edits.

The meeting is held here: kevincolyerwork at 15h00 GMT on Dec. 03, 2007.

Agenda
You can put ideas here for what we want to talk about during the KB meeting. Anyone who wants to join in is welcome:


 * 1) Your ideas here!!! (put ~: before your comment and you have the lead on that discussion!)
 * 2) Douglass: This idea applies to both this meeting, and the discussion about wiki note taking. While wikis are great for taking notes, they are not so great for taking interactive notes. I sugjest we use Gobby for this purpose, and place the content on the wiki at the end of the meeting. -- Douglass
 * 3) * Douglass, can you set this up for the meeting please? --Kev-The-Hasty 13:03, 30 November 2007 (CET)
 * 4) Kev-The-Hasty 13:03, 30 November 2007 (CET): Can we review how well the wysiwyg editor is doing? I have some problems - it creates quite poor code and I have been cleaning up a lot of stuff. Proposal: Off by default (Currently On by default)
 * 5) Douglass: How to attract people to the KB (KPC: to contribute)
 * 6) Douglass: Organizing teams
 * 7) Douglass: Profile + skill listing section for people Resource People
 * 8) Douglass: How shall we organize a style guide?
 * 9) Kevin: Portals and front page

Lots on the agenda. I will be quite strict and limit harmless banter!!! Please come prepared! --Kev-The-Hasty 13:03, 30 November 2007 (CET)

Apologies
Please write your apologies here and any comments you wish to make but will not be able to. (Please sign by entering a --~ )

Attending?
Please put your name here if you are planning on coming to the meeting. Crashsystems


 * Crashsystems
 * Kev-The-Hasty

Minutes
Present: Kevin Colyer, Douglass, Steve Sullivan, Chris, Sarah Cumming

Minutes coming soon!

Next Meeting: YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting 20080107|Monday 7th January @ 15h00 GMT

Transcript
[16:09:49] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting" [16:09:52] kevincolyerwork: WELCOME ALL. lET'S INTRODUCE OURSELVES [16:10:23] ... I'm Kevin and I am feeling calm and relaxed and glad there are 4 people in this meeting [16:10:33] ... Im in brussels and it is raining! [16:10:36] Douglass: Ok. I'm Douglass, and I work for the IT department at YWAM Nashville. http://crashsystems.wikispaces.com [16:11:31] chris: i'm chris, i'm with ywam latvia, but right now i'm in the US... i'm generally facilitating communication for ywam latvia.... i'm in Ohio now... it's cold & windy :) [16:11:41] Douglass: Is steve still on, or is he just invisible? [16:11:48] Steve Sullivan, admirer of knowledgebases everywhere (aokbe): i'm steve and chunky [16:11:52] ... not invisible at all [16:11:58] kevincolyerwork: He was suprisingly quiet for a moment [16:11:58] Douglass: ahh, ok [16:12:05] chris: ;) [16:12:06] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: good to meet you chris and douglass [16:12:08] kevincolyerwork: OK EVERYONE. [16:12:17] ... THE AGENDA IS HERE: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting_20071203 [16:12:18] chris: you too [16:12:19] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i live in harpenden, england and work with training and kevin [16:12:55] kevincolyerwork: IS THERE ANYTHING FOLKS WOULD WANT TO CHAT ABOUT BUT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA? [16:13:10] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: need to read that page sorry [16:13:17] kevincolyerwork: I wont shout in capitals all the time just when I want order! [16:13:18] Douglass: I'll let you know if I think of anything. [16:13:21] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: did you say 'portals' [16:13:30] ... and the front page that you and i talked about [16:13:46] ... i've got gobby up now [16:13:55] kevincolyerwork: too late [16:14:02] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: drat [16:14:18] kevincolyerwork: ok we will add in someting on Portals and Front page at end of agenda. [16:14:34] ... Chris: what do you want to talk about? [16:14:47] chris: well... my biggest thing is ease of use [16:15:02] ... i'm thinking of how can we make this KB something that anyone will feel comfortable contributing to [16:15:29] kevincolyerwork: Good. Sounds like part of point 4 [16:15:35] chris: yeah [16:15:41] kevincolyerwork: Perhaps you can ponder the barriers for people [16:15:53] chris: shall i do that here or in my head? [16:15:54] ... ;) [16:16:23] kevincolyerwork: just mutter outloud - they might all think you are mad in Ohio and leave you alone for the meeting! [16:16:39] chris: :D [16:16:50] ... well... i am, by far, NOT the typical user [16:17:02] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: chris, that isn't muttering, it is a picture of someone muttering [16:17:14] kevincolyerwork: OK [16:17:25] chris: and my first experience with a WIKI was a bit dauntind [16:17:27] ... *daunting [16:17:33] ... the interface was confusing [16:17:40] kevincolyerwork: Yep [16:17:42] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: what suggestions do you have then chris [16:17:43] chris: it doesn't help that it has it's own special way of formatting [16:17:45] kevincolyerwork: It took me a while [16:17:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it took me seconds [16:17:59] kevincolyerwork: a year ful [16:18:06] ... full of seconds [16:18:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: *a long time [16:18:23] ... kevin and i are thinking of putting a [16:18:24] Douglass: I myself use the wysiwyg editor, and use syntax for touch up. [16:18:26] chris: my suggestion would perhaps be to find something that would be easier to understand... from the little bit that i saw of Deki Wiki that Doug showed me... [16:18:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: 'start here' button back on [16:18:30] chris: it seems easy [16:18:54] Douglass: http://wiki.opengarden.org/Deki_Wiki [16:19:00] chris: thanks [16:19:29] kevincolyerwork: There are so many wiki's now. About 200 implimentations of them. Plus I wrote a little one in PHP once. [16:19:54] chris: nice! [16:20:01] Douglass: I think this one is probably the easyest I've seen. [16:20:12] kevincolyerwork: Looks good. [16:20:16] chris: what about maybe using something like Wordpress as an overlay application? [16:20:23] kevincolyerwork: Can that be done? [16:20:27] chris: (just as an alternative) [16:20:36] ... David Couper in Harpenden [16:20:45] kevincolyerwork: Have you tried the wysiwyg editor yet? [16:20:47] chris: can tear Wordpress apart & build it back up in an form her wants [16:20:55] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: wow [16:21:01] Douglass: I think that would be a lot of coding. [16:21:06] chris: he did that with the new ywam harpenden site [16:21:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: will it look the same? [16:21:17] chris: it's all Wordpress redesigned/reprogrammed [16:21:27] ... Alex Costa also helps him there [16:21:29] ... with that [16:21:37] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, but they are very very busy [16:21:47] chris: well... yes... but i'd have to wonder [16:21:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i have been waiting 2 months for them to set up a sharepoint site [16:21:54] kevincolyerwork: doug showed my the wysiwyg editor for mediawiki that we are trialing here. I have not found many wysiwyg editors for wikis. Most were designed before blogs. [16:22:03] chris: if they have Wordpress wrapped up like that... maybe it wouldn't be hard to integrate [16:22:17] ... anyway... just an idea [16:22:17] kevincolyerwork: The problem is that the wiki markup is not html [16:22:22] chris: right [16:22:24] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'd rather stay a little away from ywam it, they are busy [16:22:25] chris: that is a problem [16:22:42] kevincolyerwork: and although there are wysiwyg editors for html none really work well with wikis' [16:22:58] chris: that's interesting [16:22:59] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i spoke with them for 3 years about setting up this wiki and they kept putting it off -- it is not a priority for them, it is for me [16:23:06] kevincolyerwork: the one we use now is a beta version and is re-written to squirt out mediawiki code [16:23:15] Douglass: deki wiki uses regular html, which means that any wysiwyg editor will work. [16:23:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we change it easily kev? [16:23:28] kevincolyerwork: hmmm. I will look into it. I [16:23:31] ... Not realluy [16:23:34] chris: what are the pros & what are the cons of using Deki Wiki? [16:23:40] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: otherwise i'd rathe we trained people to use it? [16:23:52] kevincolyerwork: we have 263 content pages and hundreds of other pages written so far - that is a lot to change [16:23:52] chris: that's the thing, Steve... to be honest... [16:24:03] ... i don't know that folks will have the time or inclination to be trained... [16:24:08] ... i could be wrong about that [16:24:11] Douglass: good points, both [16:24:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i love wikipedia and it is very very similar [16:24:17] kevincolyerwork: you could be right too [16:24:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and loads have learned to use it [16:24:26] chris: yes [16:24:29] kevincolyerwork: loads of techincal people [16:24:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'd rather we had the [16:24:38] ... 'where to start thing' work out [16:24:49] Douglass: what about a script to automaticly take all 200+ articles and convert them to html? [16:24:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: give real thought to how to present it [16:24:56] chris: what is ywamkb based on? something other than mediawiki? [16:25:02] kevincolyerwork: Sarah Cumming is joining! [16:25:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: hi sarah, welcome back [16:25:11] * kevincolyerwork invited eeyorerulez [16:25:12] Douglass: it uses mediawiki [16:25:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: how was gibraltar [16:25:20] chris: ah ok... [16:25:22] ... hi Sarah [16:25:28] Sarah Cumming: Hi ya [16:25:40] Douglass: hello and welcome [16:25:42] Sarah Cumming: Gib is cold today [16:25:44] kevincolyerwork: Welcome sarah. We are sort of talking about Barriers to entry. Our agenda is here; http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Meeting_20071203 [16:25:49] Sarah Cumming: thanks! [16:26:04] kevincolyerwork: We jummped to point 3 I guess on the way to point 4 [16:26:26] Sarah Cumming: ok let me just get to this! [16:26:35] kevincolyerwork: chris: when we set up the wiki the idea was to leaverage the mediawiki knowledge out there. [16:26:39] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: when i've sat with people and walked them through it they can put stuff on [16:26:47] chris: ok [16:26:55] kevincolyerwork: I'm glad we did or we wouldn't have had the editor we have now. Plus there was a lot less choise then! [16:27:05] ... Keep a sharp eye on it Chris [16:27:05] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: but still need a clearer presentation [16:27:12] chris: i have to agree... the editor did help a lot [16:27:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and i still fluctuate between the wsiwyg and the other one [16:27:22] ... i use both [16:27:23] kevincolyerwork: I think he makes a top point here: we must make barriers as low as possible [16:27:30] ... I only use the text one [16:27:33] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: very low [16:27:38] ... low low low [16:27:39] ... sorry [16:27:43] chris: :D [16:27:46] kevincolyerwork: Has anyone watched my Screencasts [16:27:49] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes [16:27:49] kevincolyerwork: ?? [16:27:53] Douglass: I have [16:27:54] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i have started to do another one [16:27:54] chris: didn't know they were there [16:28:00] kevincolyerwork: On front page [16:28:05] ... now [16:28:05] Douglass: how about we focus on ways to improve our implementation of mediawiki, and keep the deki wiki idea on the back burner? [16:28:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: the first one introducing the main page is dated [16:28:09] Sarah Cumming: are they [16:28:12] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and i wanted to renew it [16:28:28] kevincolyerwork: yes I guss so [16:28:34] ... I need to rework them [16:28:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we then try some teaching pages that really do make it simple [16:28:50] Douglass: perhaps you could embed the youtube video right in the page. [16:28:56] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: kev, can i visit with you before christams? [16:28:57] kevincolyerwork: That would be possible [16:29:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: for 2 days? [16:29:07] ... or are you too busy? [16:29:16] kevincolyerwork: most likely - chat later? [16:29:19] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok [16:29:23] ... low [16:29:42] kevincolyerwork: Proposal: embed instructional videos in wiki [16:29:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: the dts should have a week on knowledgebases [16:29:50] ... ok, good proposal [16:30:00] kevincolyerwork: Has anyone trained anyone else in the KB? [16:30:02] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and redo them if they aren't clear enough [16:30:08] kevincolyerwork: DTS? [16:30:19] ... You should do a DTS Steve [16:30:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok, all UofN courses [16:30:35] kevincolyerwork: I Has anyone trained anyone else in the KB? [16:30:38] Douglass: I would love to train people here, but my biggest problem is getting people to see why it is important. [16:30:59] kevincolyerwork: Why do they struggle with that? [16:31:03] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: some of my friends plan their dts using the kb [16:31:10] ... they love it [16:31:37] ... when the new teams section really takes off it will become really really obvious the benefit [16:31:40] chris: i like the aspect of document sharing using a kb [16:31:52] Douglass: the problem is getting people to see that some times they need to focus on not just imediate needs, but things of long-term benifit. [16:32:06] chris: which is something Rodney Blevins & i did when we started to work on the new ywam.eu site [16:32:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, but also retention of knowledge and sharing of the latest practice [16:32:21] chris: yes... [16:32:24] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: documents can be very static [16:32:43] ... and are often written by people in offices [16:32:46] chris: i guess i was referring to documents as electronic versions... [16:32:53] Sarah Cumming: how many regular users are there? [16:32:56] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we want the best practitioners writing stuff [16:33:03] ... not many yet [16:33:13] kevincolyerwork: i disagree - we want anyone to write stuff... [16:33:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we want practitioners writing stuff [16:33:47] ... we want people who know something to write stuff [16:33:48] kevincolyerwork: hopefully the best practioners will then get jelous and write! [16:34:02] chris: i know i contributed to the GENESIS pages... [16:34:07] kevincolyerwork: Me too! [16:34:12] Douglass: lol, I think there is truth to what both of you are saying. [16:34:14] chris: but then i heard that some leaders in GENESIS didn't like the idea of putting too much info on there [16:34:26] kevincolyerwork: Why on EARTH NOT? [16:34:29] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: they need to be healed [16:34:35] kevincolyerwork: forgive them lord [16:34:37] chris: because they thought maybe it would do away the need for the training programs [16:34:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: if it is so good it must be independent of them [16:34:46] chris: come on guys... let's keep an open mind [16:34:47] kevincolyerwork: Great - they should be got rid of [16:34:52] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: good, that is one of the points of the kb [16:35:09] ... so that it can multiply way beyond us and our ability to control and direct it [16:35:23] kevincolyerwork: The problem with Genesis is that if they don't multiply it Skype will outmultiply them [16:35:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: proposal: look at front page, videos and ease of use [16:35:33] ... then move on to next point [16:35:39] Sarah Cumming: What part of the agenda is this in? [16:35:40] chris: well... i think it's important to realize that we're dealing with a huge paradigm shift [16:35:47] Douglass: I think we need to keep in mind that the idea of a wiki is a revolutionary concept to some, and they may be a bit resistant at first. [16:35:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: not so huge [16:35:53] kevincolyerwork: and the gears are crunching! [16:36:29] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: for 30 years i've been collecting DTS stuff and putting it in files for the staff. we rewrite them all the time -- it is simply trying to colect everybodies stuff and put it on the internet [16:36:41] kevincolyerwork: Actually there are a few sticking points: DTS center folks, now some Genesis folks and also some YWAM England staff are all trying to grapple with this! [16:36:54] ... Only YWAM England are in dialogue about ti [16:37:07] chris: may i interject one thing here? [16:37:11] kevincolyerwork: sure [16:37:12] Douglass: please do [16:37:36] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i spent time with the entire english leadership team this week showing them how to use the kb and they were thrilled. [16:37:41] ... oops, sorry [16:37:48] kevincolyerwork: ssssh [16:37:55] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: go for it chris [16:38:10] chris: let's please try to understand that there are many wounds out there regarding communication in general... so i think it's important that we approach this whole thing with an attitude of service [16:38:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: wounds? [16:38:23] chris: i'm talking about YWAM communication [16:38:27] kevincolyerwork: Can you explain a little? [16:38:32] chris: that was the whole reason for the creation of CRIT [16:38:53] ... Lynn Green felt from the Lord that He wanted to heal the nervous system of YWAM [16:39:02] ... that's why he created CRIT... [16:39:15] ... so that we can understand how God wants to heal our nervous system [16:39:24] ... because without a good communication system [16:39:39] ... the enemy can very easily divide and conquer [16:39:56] kevincolyerwork: And that is really the motivation behind the KB [16:40:07] ... To share, to support and help each other [16:40:13] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think Lynn wanted to create it, it wasn't really there before [16:40:20] chris: and i guess, we here, in this place... have a responsibility to make sure that we approach this with the utmost of respect of those we're trying to serve [16:40:28] kevincolyerwork: D'accord [16:40:54] ... I think it is important to consider the creation of community too [16:41:02] ... For example [16:41:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: for nearly 30 years people have been asking me the same questions over and over again and i wanted a place for all of us to be able to contribute and share everything we've ever learned that could be a help to others. it is creating a community that shares [16:41:39] kevincolyerwork: Communication is for the purpose of community. We started the KB to draw those needing help and those offering help together. [16:42:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think i understand some of your concern chris [16:42:04] kevincolyerwork: Case in point I have never physically met you Chris or Douglass. Now we have a purposeful meeting together [16:42:15] chris: i can say that i am honored to even be a part of this... and i am very excited Kevin that you & Steve & Doug are spearheading this [16:42:22] kevincolyerwork: and you [16:42:25] ... and sarha [16:42:41] chris: brb [16:42:58] kevincolyerwork: I think this is a good discussion [16:43:03] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: did you know that for 12 years i used to oversee the dtss in the UK and ireland, we worked closely together then, did before that and continue to. working together has been something of a value for us for many many years. the kb is a way to extend it [16:43:18] ... i am so so so very excited about the developing new teams network [16:43:42] Douglass: I agree. I think it is safe to say that the conversation has moved to the area of recruiting. [16:43:51] ... any ideas on this topic? [16:43:53] kevincolyerwork: Proposal: If we hear of people struggling with the giving away of stuff on the KB that we encourage dialog. Steve and myself are happy to talk to anyone who has misgivings. [16:43:56] Sarah Cumming: sorry I'm back [16:44:01] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: recruiting" [16:44:09] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: there are many teams out there with 40 -- 70% of what they need to know to get their team really functioning and multiplying, between us all we know all that we need to know, we just haven't got a way to share it besides this [16:44:20] Douglass: I like that idea kevin [16:44:23] kevincolyerwork: ANYONE IN AGREEMENT WITH MY PROPOSAL? [16:44:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: what about my proposal? [16:44:38] ... i like mine [16:44:44] kevincolyerwork: Restate in one sentence pls [16:44:45] Sarah Cumming: I like both :-) [16:44:51] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i like sarah [16:44:55] kevincolyerwork: AGREED] [16:45:22] ... Steve: do you think Sarah will come and work for me in Brussels and help us with the KB> [16:45:24] ... ? [16:45:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: proposal: look at front page, videos and ease of use [16:45:35] Sarah Cumming: Pray and let me know! [16:45:40] kevincolyerwork: OK [16:45:42] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: sarah would if she were saved! [16:45:48] Sarah Cumming: hahaha [16:45:56] Douglass: I agree steve. The front page is important. [16:46:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and Kev's about dialog [16:46:03] kevincolyerwork: Steve: Lets go back to your point about the front page and then go forwrds to recruiting [16:46:10] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: Frontpage then Recruiting" [16:46:10] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we agree the two proposals [16:46:20] ... did we agree before we go back to recruiting? [16:46:23] kevincolyerwork: Can we be more specific about front page [16:46:41] Sarah Cumming: whats the problem with it - Clarity? [16:46:51] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: access to 'where to start' [16:46:54] Sarah Cumming: aaah [16:47:09] kevincolyerwork: But where should people start???????? [16:47:19] Sarah Cumming: Ooohhh ok [16:47:27] kevincolyerwork: More video? [16:47:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let me suggest [16:47:43] chris: sorry... i'm back [16:47:45] Sarah Cumming: video needs to be higher up I think [16:47:58] Douglass: I think that the front page is a little cluttered. Also, if we could embed the intro video into the front page, that would help. [16:48:10] chris: i'd like to remind us of the fact that many can't watch video because of bandwidth restrictions [16:48:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: this is 'waht contribution you can make' and this is 'how to make your contribution' [16:48:18] kevincolyerwork: ;-( [16:48:30] chris: yeah... that's good Steve [16:48:35] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: very simple [16:48:48] ... i think it is a matter of critical mass [16:48:51] chris: perhaps there could be a short, succint mission/vision statement? [16:48:56] kevincolyerwork: Chris: lets write the text first and film a video after [16:49:01] chris: sure :)( [16:49:08] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: at some point everyone will be able to use it, just like wikipedia, God bless it's holy name [16:49:10] kevincolyerwork: There is this... [16:49:15] Sarah Cumming: there is too much text [16:49:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, text first [16:49:21] ... sorry [16:49:24] chris: Sarah: i agree [16:49:24] Sarah Cumming: though [16:49:30] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:About [16:49:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: sry [16:49:44] kevincolyerwork: Should I cut out the news bit? [16:49:55] Douglass: I think we should get rid of the tag cloud. I love clouds, but for most people I think they are overwelming. [16:50:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: no, i think it will catch on [16:50:08] chris: i think i would agree, Doug [16:50:22] Sarah Cumming: what are clouds ? [16:50:24] chris: what is the point of the tag cloud? [16:50:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i wasn't talking about the tag cloud, just the growing ability to use it [16:50:41] kevincolyerwork: to quickly and visually see the type of stuff there [16:51:00] Douglass: it is a way to kinda get a snapshot of the entire content. The area with tones of words with different sizes. [16:51:04] kevincolyerwork: Basically every category over 5 pages apprears on the cloud [16:51:13] chris: Sarah... the tag cloud is the list of Categories the appears on the right of the front page.... [16:51:14] Sarah Cumming: aaaah that bit [16:51:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: the tag cloud looks good and attractive [16:51:21] kevincolyerwork: More pages bigger the text [16:51:32] Sarah Cumming: I like that [16:51:33] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: but it could be replaced by a snazzy set of major portals [16:51:45] kevincolyerwork: it could [16:51:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: portals to the major areas [16:51:52] chris: is there a possibility of maybe using some Ajax there? [16:52:03] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ajaz? [16:52:04] chris: or would that be too narrowing of the audience, as well? [16:52:06] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/Portal [16:52:23] chris: Ajax... Web 2.0... [16:52:32] ... interacitve html [16:52:36] ... interactive [16:52:38] kevincolyerwork: yep ajax is possible - there is an expanding tree view of content but it is not as nice as the cloud [16:52:44] chris: ok [16:52:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: [nice portal kev, something like that] [16:53:00] ... i like the portal and the clouds [16:53:03] chris: yeah... i really like that, Kev [16:53:14] kevincolyerwork: it needs some work [16:53:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i like the cloud overview with its emphasis on the specific content [16:53:39] ... i think access is the issue, how do people access and add to hte content [16:53:45] kevincolyerwork: I want to hurry people tothe stuff they want and not prescribe the heirachy too much [16:54:02] Sarah Cumming: ok we like the cloud, can the video be higher up on the page? [16:54:08] kevincolyerwork: Yep [16:54:29] ... idea: If steve visits me b4 christmas we make a little video and embed it [16:54:41] Sarah Cumming: could you reduce the number of points on the syndicated news [16:54:42] ... ? [16:54:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok, i'll come -- i'll just ahve to talk to julie first [16:54:55] chris: i wish there was a way to detect bandwidth of a user to determine if the video should even be offered [16:55:05] kevincolyerwork: Sarah: its kind of hard wired but I can try [16:55:12] chris: maybe that's a non-issue, though [16:55:16] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: need an alternative option for teaching the basics then [16:55:17] Douglass: there might be, but I think it would require php [16:55:38] chris: what about periodic GENESIS links? [16:55:38] kevincolyerwork: Chris: we can put a link underneath pointing to the text of the movie. Plus text will get translated/shredded by google [16:55:48] chris: for training [16:55:57] ... & awareness [16:56:01] kevincolyerwork: Good idea! [16:56:16] Douglass: I might be able to do some work on a text/graphical guide. [16:56:22] Sarah Cumming: But you have to pay for Genesis right? wouldnt that cause a probs? [16:56:24] chris: well [16:56:26] kevincolyerwork: I must try to GENESIS myself - I have a webcam after all! [16:56:40] chris: only if you have to link through ISDN... it can be done over the 'net [16:56:51] kevincolyerwork: Chris: could you do a GENESIS for cheap page: explain about epigka and webcams and stuff [16:57:01] chris: it's there, i believe [16:57:04] ... isn't it? [16:57:17] kevincolyerwork: Not very clear that ordinary people with broadband can do it [16:57:26] ... like a recipe [16:57:45] chris: for fear of getting off topic, though... it's important to understand that GENESIS is not a technology... it's a ministry... & it's not about any one technology either [16:58:03] ... i think that's why Mike & i didn't go that direction very clearly [16:58:09] kevincolyerwork: so we can do skype too? ;) [16:58:28] ... OK [16:58:31] chris: actually not yet... because, ironically, GENESIS is wanting to stick with industry standard protocols [16:58:37] kevincolyerwork: Touche! [16:58:49] ... Openwenga phone? [16:58:53] chris: ?? [16:58:57] kevincolyerwork: Check it out! [16:59:01] ... ANY WAY [16:59:01] chris: ok [16:59:04] ... right :p [16:59:42] kevincolyerwork: Proposal: Change front page to more clearly focus on getting people involved, and to information. Cut down words etc. Film and embed a video [16:59:57] ... Vote? +1 for -1 against [17:00:01] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: me for [17:00:04] chris: sounds good [17:00:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'll help [17:00:06] ... i was going to do it [17:00:06] kevincolyerwork: +1 [17:00:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let's do it together then [17:00:27] kevincolyerwork: We can all write the text - that's what wiki's are for! [17:00:29] Douglass: sorry, my wi-fi is having issues [17:00:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it will be great and accessible for all [17:00:36] kevincolyerwork: Cool. [17:00:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: my wifi hates me [17:00:40] kevincolyerwork: Next point? [17:00:42] chris: :p [17:00:44] ... sorry, steve [17:00:46] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: Recruiting" [17:00:47] chris: i understand [17:01:04] kevincolyerwork: over to you doug [17:01:21] Douglass: so, any ideas on how to get people to truely buy into the idea of a ywam wiki? [17:01:49] kevincolyerwork: doug's wifi's mad with him [17:01:53] Douglass: so, any ideas on how to get people to truely buy into the idea of a ywam wiki? [17:02:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: my wife is sometimes mad with me [17:02:04] ... ha ha ha ha [17:02:11] ... very funny steve [17:02:21] kevincolyerwork: Recruiting: people are joining about 1 every 3 days [17:02:24] ... BUT [17:02:25] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: my wife's dog never liked me [17:02:28] kevincolyerwork: not all are writing [17:02:48] ... I want to have a WIKI writing week! [17:02:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we need to make it easier, we already agreed to do that [17:03:02] Douglass: so I think there are two aspects to recruiting: [17:03:06] kevincolyerwork: Invite people to spend a week wherever they are and write for the wiki [17:03:13] ... sorry doug [17:03:16] Douglass: getting people to come and "use" the site, and getting people to contribute [17:03:21] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes [17:03:25] kevincolyerwork: d'accord [17:03:30] Douglass: both need to be addressed [17:03:48] chris: perhaps write something as a news article on ywamconnect.net [17:03:55] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: in business there is some agreement that it needs a core group to write most of it until it reaches a critical point [17:03:55] kevincolyerwork: good idea [17:04:00] chris: incl. a photo so it could be in the main news section [17:04:10] kevincolyerwork: screenshot? [17:04:11] chris: makes sense [17:04:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: could we find 10 -- 15 people who will contribute a lot [17:04:17] ... and then see it accelerate [17:04:25] kevincolyerwork: It is accelrating [17:04:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: kev and i have still put most of the material on, i think [17:04:28] chris: screenshot could be [17:04:40] kevincolyerwork: Look at the stat's page: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Statistics [17:04:44] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can we recruit the 15 people? [17:04:52] ... i look at it every day [17:04:55] chris: i'm still new to YWAM, so i don't feel qualified to write much [17:05:05] kevincolyerwork: Steve Goode is adding a lot [17:05:14] ... Chris: Doesn't matter. [17:05:16] Sarah Cumming: write about how you got there [17:05:24] chris: oh [17:05:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i love steve goode [17:05:27] chris: good point sarah [17:05:47] kevincolyerwork: Just wirite about what you know. It is suprising how quickly you know a lot [17:06:09] chris: because that might be something that could be interesting for folks... because my wife & i pretty much ONLY used the internet in our decision making (not in place of prayer, of course) [17:06:18] kevincolyerwork: there is a section on being a missionary that actually being a new YWAM would help! [17:06:30] ... We need to know that! [17:06:43] chris: how do i know where to begin? [17:06:50] ... AHH... there's the rub! [17:06:54] ... :) [17:07:08] kevincolyerwork: Chris: Here http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/Why_I_joined_YWAM [17:07:15] chris: like... where would i even classify this kind of thing? [17:07:19] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/Why_I_joined_YWAM [17:07:33] ... Let others classify what you write. [17:07:33] chris: but here's my point... [17:07:35] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we need to work on classifications to make it easier [17:07:39] ... yes, kev [17:07:40] chris: how would anyone else know where to start? [17:07:52] kevincolyerwork: that is harder to say! [17:08:02] chris: the thing that was hard for me to grasp right away was that i could simply start a page [17:08:04] kevincolyerwork: In the welcome message I make a menu of suggestions [17:08:11] chris: by just typing in what i wanted to find [17:08:14] Douglass: I think that is where a good video / text tutorial comes in. [17:08:19] chris: yes [17:08:26] ... because that was very easy [17:08:26] kevincolyerwork: that is why we added the create page button [17:08:28] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let's put this all together into the 'how to start' ideas [17:08:30] ... great [17:08:35] kevincolyerwork: ok [17:08:37] chris: but it wasn't something that i would come up with right away [17:08:45] Sarah Cumming: guys, I'm sorry but I need to go [17:08:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: tell me more chris [17:08:47] kevincolyerwork: we will try to make it clearer [17:08:50] ... by! [17:08:52] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: bye sarah we love you [17:08:52] kevincolyerwork: bye! [17:08:57] Sarah Cumming: byeeeee [17:09:04] chris: i mean... how would i know to simply type something into the search & if it doesn't exist it would create a page for me? [17:09:05] Sarah Cumming: Kev we'll be in touch [17:09:07] chris: bye sarah! [17:09:08] Sarah Cumming: :-) [17:09:12] ... byeeee [17:09:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i didn't know that!!!!!!! [17:09:23] kevincolyerwork: c'est ne plus logique! [17:09:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i've never used it [17:09:29] chris: :D [17:09:31] kevincolyerwork: I di! [17:09:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i am rubbish [17:09:33] kevincolyerwork: do [17:09:36] ... yes [17:09:40] ... shocking steve [17:09:45] chris: that's the easiest thing ever [17:09:48] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i feel ill [17:09:53] chris: hee hee [17:09:54] ... sorry, steve [17:09:58] kevincolyerwork: us young people rule [17:09:59] chris: ;) [17:10:00] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think that's how wikipedia works [17:10:04] kevincolyerwork: OK [17:10:05] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ish [17:10:05] ... i am young [17:10:09] ... 53 [17:10:11] kevincolyerwork: So about recruiting new people [17:10:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: though i'm often mistaken for an older person [17:10:20] chris: i think mediawiki is an extension of wikipedia, isn't it? [17:10:23] kevincolyerwork: proposal article in ywamconnect.net [17:10:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: no, wikipedia is an extension of ywamkb [17:10:33] chris: i'm happy to write that [17:10:37] ... if yo'd want [17:10:42] ... *you'd [17:10:46] ... for ywamconnect.net [17:10:46] kevincolyerwork: mediawiki is the software that runs wikipedia etc [17:10:49] chris: right [17:10:50] ... ok [17:10:58] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: fantastic chris -- could you explain a little of how to acces it too then please? [17:11:06] chris: access it? [17:11:14] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: find stuff, add stuff [17:11:14] chris: (just need clarification) [17:11:15] kevincolyerwork: Please - check these pages and add your stuff there too YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal [17:11:25] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: find stuff add stuff [17:11:34] chris: so basically i'd write a brief tutorial? [17:11:46] kevincolyerwork: YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal is a good place to put stuff [17:11:48] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, and how it will help them [17:12:03] chris: hmm... one thing... really quick [17:12:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: plan dts, outreach, train staff, start new evangelism team [17:12:19] chris: this doesn't make sense to me... is this wiki markup? YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal [17:12:25] kevincolyerwork: [mediawiki is the software that runs wikipedia etc. it is in PHP and runs on apache with mysql or other backend] [17:12:26] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: how it will help ME, is really important. it must scratch where people itch [17:12:35] Douglass: I think that the ywamconnect article should be more about why ywamkb is so great, and the tutorial should be on the site itself [17:12:41] kevincolyerwork: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal [17:12:44] ... sorry [17:12:44] chris: i agree, doug [17:12:51] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, i agree [17:13:00] kevincolyerwork: It would be nice to have an article by you guys and not us [17:13:04] chris: so tell me... is this wiki markup? YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community Portal [17:13:04] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: can that be the third proposal [17:13:13] kevincolyerwork: no I meant :http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal [17:13:31] ... in markup its YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal [17:13:48] chris: so.... i would give them this url? http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php/YWAMKnowledgeBase:Community_Portal [17:14:13] kevincolyerwork: no. that was for you. I have some promotions pages there. [17:14:22] chris: ok [17:14:34] Douglass: Chris:Idea: how about you put up your initial text on the kb, then we can colab on it a bit, then submit it. [17:14:42] chris: sounds good :) [17:14:45] kevincolyerwork: That was what I meant! [17:15:02] ... Back to recruiting: What about getting others to write [17:15:20] chris: perhaps we could put something on ywamit.com as well [17:15:22] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: 15 people doing a lot should be enough [17:15:25] ... ? [17:15:26] chris: or maybe the same thing [17:15:31] kevincolyerwork: do it! [17:15:32] chris: as ywamconnect.net [17:15:33] ... ok [17:15:47] kevincolyerwork: I would love to see an IY article on it. [17:15:53] Douglass: perhaps start off by expanding the section of new content we wont, then contact people outside our little group who have experience in these topics, and ask them to write. [17:16:00] ... want* [17:16:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, great idea doug [17:16:24] kevincolyerwork: I am working on Mercy ministries a bit. Steve Goode (Groove1950) is adding a lot [17:16:34] ... we should ask him to champion us a bit [17:16:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: fantastic [17:17:05] Douglass: question: Does Lynn Green know about the KB, and if so, what does he think about it? [17:17:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, he has seen it [17:17:11] chris: he should know [17:17:13] kevincolyerwork: He like is [17:17:14] chris: i think it's right up his ally [17:17:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i spoke to him about it on thursday [17:17:21] chris: :) [17:17:26] kevincolyerwork: but not written anything yey [17:17:31] ... I have be invited to the Eurocom meeting in January by Jeff Fountiain [17:17:34] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: he didn't particularly express an opinion [17:17:47] kevincolyerwork: Will oyu be there Chris? [17:17:56] chris: i'm in the US till March, i'm afraiid [17:18:01] ... i wish i could be there!!! [17:18:10] kevincolyerwork: Perhaps we should Genesis you in? [17:18:16] chris: perhaps so! [17:18:17] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ywam is both a movement and an organization. i think the kb is part of the movement and the better for it. What do you think? [17:19:00] chris: it makes sense... anything that keeps our collaboration decentralized fits into the DNA of ywam... [17:19:01] kevincolyerwork: I tried to explain that so far we have this section: http://wiki.ywambrussels.be/kb/index.php?title=Category:Communication. I think CRITers everywhere could contribute and imporve it [17:19:06] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: let me say something when there is a free minute [17:19:26] Douglass: ok [17:19:30] kevincolyerwork: ok [17:19:31] chris: listening [17:19:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: most leaders from western eurpe will be together for a week in early april [17:19:48] ... and it will major on the new teams network [17:19:51] kevincolyerwork: 31st March - 4 April [17:20:01] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we want to committ to starting nearly 100 new teams in the next 2 years [17:20:02] chris: where will it be? [17:20:07] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: kev? [17:20:13] kevincolyerwork: Near Appeldorn, Netherlands [17:20:25] chris: is this something that you will be at? [17:20:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we will have a list of about 50 resource people on the kb [17:20:30] kevincolyerwork: yes [17:20:34] chris: great [17:20:41] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: each will identify an area they have learned [17:20:46] ... startin a new team [17:20:49] ... raising team money, [17:20:52] ... starting a project [17:20:52] kevincolyerwork: You can come as a guest from Europe N [17:20:54] chris: steve... is that the resource list of people & their abilities? [17:20:58] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: identifying a new leader [17:21:03] kevincolyerwork: yes [17:21:08] chris: ok cool [17:21:09] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: and they will put material on related to that [17:21:19] ... and then over the few months after the conference [17:21:36] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: Recruiting (10 mins till end of meeting - don't forget your hat and coat)" [17:21:43] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: they will offer to spend a day or 2 or 5 with whoever will come to them to teach them [17:21:50] chris: i have a friend who *might* be taking leadership of communication for N. Europe... so i'll be sure to let her know about this? [17:21:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i think it will provide a boost to the kb [17:22:05] ... and of course, more important, to evangelism in europe [17:22:11] ... and collaboration on that [17:22:14] ... finished [17:22:16] kevincolyerwork: Chris: please invite her to be involved [17:22:35] chris: thanks Steve... [17:22:35] Douglass: Misc. Proposal: Create a new section in community portal for brainstorming kb improvement ideas. [17:22:42] kevincolyerwork: AGREED [17:22:45] chris: :) [17:23:16] ... i have a question, if there's space/time [17:23:31] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: go for it [17:24:08] chris: what about sensitive info? is there/should there be some leadership involvement to make sure there isn't anything posted that would be damaging to YWAM'ers & their security in sensitive zones? [17:24:27] kevincolyerwork: We recommend people don't use the KB for that [17:24:34] chris: is there some kind of accountability for new users? [17:24:41] kevincolyerwork: Acutally there is little to be gained in posting it [17:24:51] chris: true... just like... locations [17:24:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it is the same as the wikipedia [17:25:12] Douglass: I think that the accountability comes from the fact that anyone can edit it. [17:25:15] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: as community develops, people check what each other write to improve and look out for it [17:25:19] kevincolyerwork: so far no-one has done anything like that [17:25:21] chris: right now ywam kb is manageable with the amount of users [17:25:36] ... but like... ywamconnect.net now has 16,500 users (or more) [17:25:45] ... that would be extremely tough to moderate [17:25:59] Douglass: I think once the kb gets huge, we'll need people that oversee spcific sections. [17:26:04] chris: yes [17:26:05] ... ok [17:26:07] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: there is already someone from the DTS center that looks over dts stuff to make sure it is right [17:26:10] kevincolyerwork: I can't think why people would make that mistake [17:26:11] chris: just thinking out loud, as it were :) [17:26:22] ... i'm just thinking [17:26:29] ... that if anyone is able to create a username [17:26:31] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it may be worth putting a caveat somewhere saying it though chris [17:26:42] kevincolyerwork: I think it is in the faq [17:26:50] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: perhaps i wrote it then? [17:26:55] kevincolyerwork: yep [17:27:00] chris: great [17:27:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i did write it, i really am rubbish [17:27:18] kevincolyerwork: It is easy to rollback and delete information [17:27:27] chris: :D [17:27:28] Douglass: lol [17:27:30] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ha ha [17:27:35] kevincolyerwork: I did delete a password colin left in his xml stuff! [17:27:47] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: i'm not even smart enough to be a nerd, drat [17:27:50] chris: i know one of the issues at the IT forum of CRIT '06 was making sure the websites representing YWAM are doing so with integrity [17:27:52] kevincolyerwork: But to be honest he could also change his password too! [17:28:40] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it is back to the movement and organization thing though [17:28:43] kevincolyerwork: You could write some guidelines and put in the communications category on the KB [17:28:45] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: we are ywam [17:28:46] chris: which, by the way, Kevin, i truly appreciated you coming up with a logo for the KB that was respectful of the original YWAM logo [17:29:02] kevincolyerwork: I like the new one now. [17:29:03] chris: yes... you are right, Steve [17:29:05] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: well done kev on the logo thing, we needed a real ywam thing [17:29:31] kevincolyerwork: Actually I might add the digital background to it sometime soon [17:29:37] ... minor point! [17:29:39] chris: :D [17:29:41] kevincolyerwork: Suggestion: What do you think of having a face to face week sometime about the KB? I would like time together to enjoy each other, inspire, time to write and worship etc [17:30:06] chris: well, 3 of the 4 of us who are here are in Europe, right? [17:30:16] ... i mean, i'm not there at the moment... [17:30:17] Douglass: I'd have to be in via video link, but sounds great. [17:30:18] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, could we start at the meeting in April? [17:30:27] kevincolyerwork: Face to face is important. We could do a "sprint" at the WELC and have an afternoon and evening together and write write write! [17:30:32] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: or can we do it with genesis? [17:30:36] kevincolyerwork: yep [17:30:47] chris: i think it'd be possible, Steve [17:31:03] ... if i couldn't be there physically, i could most likely do GENESIS [17:31:07] kevincolyerwork: I wonder as we have 122 reg users now that some might like to come [17:31:20] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: yes, many [17:31:21] kevincolyerwork: Brussels is nice in the spring! [17:31:27] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: especially the 15! [17:31:32] chris: i loved Brussels the one time i was there [17:31:39] kevincolyerwork: Come back soon! [17:31:42] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it is beautiful [17:31:44] chris: it was in 1996 [17:31:48] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: nice public transport [17:31:49] chris: in the summer [17:31:50] kevincolyerwork: Welcome anytime - we have hospitality rooms here! [17:31:51] Douglass: I've flown over Brussels :) [17:31:53] chris: thank you! [17:31:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: it has been too long [17:31:59] ... i can spell brussls [17:32:02] chris: :D [17:32:05] kevincolyerwork: bruxelles [17:32:11] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: sorre [17:32:11] kevincolyerwork: brussel [17:32:15] ... brussels [17:32:19] ... breussel [17:32:24] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: words are sprouting [17:32:27] chris: :p [17:32:35] kevincolyerwork: hey it think it is time to wrap up [17:32:38] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok [17:32:39] chris: ok [17:32:48] ... i will try to write that article really quickly [17:32:51] kevincolyerwork: chris: you are doing a great job promoting the KB up there. Keep it up! [17:32:53] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: wonderful to meet you guys and i appreicate what you all do [17:33:06] chris: :) [17:33:06] Douglass: likewise. [17:33:09] chris: you too guys [17:33:10] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: thanks [17:33:41] kevincolyerwork: Next meeting will be in Jan I think. Prob 7th [17:33:44] Steve Sullivan, aokbe: ok, bye all, see you next time [17:33:57] kevincolyerwork: anything not discussed rolled in to next time! [17:34:13] ... Thanks doug - we will try to get gobby going next time! [17:34:41] * kevincolyerwork has changed the chat topic to "YWAM KB Meeting: OVER! see you Jan 7th!"